When Does Muon Help Agentic Reinforcement Learning?

Muon is competitive with AdamW in large-scale pre-training, but its operating regime in reinforcement-learning post-training remains unclear. We map this regime on ALFWorld, a sparse-reward agentic benchmark, using three group-based objectives and Qwen2.5 models from 0.5B to 3B. Under a shared KL and clipping recipe, matched optimizer comparisons and AdamW rate controls trace the usable step-size range. AdamW responds non-monotonically to rate, whereas fan-in Muon remains stable at a more aggressive effective step: at $3 \times 10^{-5}$ it improves late success over an AdamW $10^{-6}$ baseline after correction across rate-metric tests. Its normalized-AUC effect is directionally positive but less uniform; the heuristic-matched lower-rate effect is less consistent, and tuned AdamW nearly matches high-rate Muon at 3B GraphGPO. High-rate Muon applies $3.53 \times$ AdamW's hidden-matrix update RMS; a full-budget RMS-matched control removes the late-success gain. Together, these results identify a recipe-level operating regime in which fan-in Muon supports a more aggressive stable effective step under shared KL and clipping: the margin is largest when optimization headroom remains and contracts near saturation, after AdamW tuning, or under magnitude matching. The scale-matched control ties this spectral effect to Muon's scale convention rather than establishing a universal optimizer ranking. Code is available at https://github.com/x66ccff/verl-muon.

Beyond Adam: SOAP and Muon for Faster, Label-Efficient Training of Machine Learning Interatomic Potentials

Machine learning interatomic potentials (MLIPs) have become a hallmark of AI for scientific simulation. While efforts on new architectures and datasets have led to increasingly accurate and general models, the choice of optimizer for training has largely remained unexplored, defaulting to Adam and its variants in the community. Here, we implement and systematically compare a class of recently proposed matrix-structured optimizers, including Muon, SOAP, and the hybrid SOAP-Muon, for training NequIP and Allegro MLIP models. We find that these optimizers can substantially outperform Adam in both convergence speed and final accuracy. SOAP and SOAP-Muon emerge as robust and consistently strong methods, while Muon only provides partial gains relative to Adam. The improvements are particularly pronounced under partial force supervision. Our results indicate that optimizer choice is an overlooked yet impactful design axis for MLIPs.

Large-scale empirical tuning and comparison of default optimizers for variational inference

Black-box variational inference (BBVI) is a methodology for posterior approximation that relies on stochastic optimization. In practice, the stochastic optimizers underpinning BBVI generally require extensive problem-specific tuning, which undermines its promise as a truly "black box" inference algorithm. However, over the past decade, many new adaptive stochastic optimization algorithms have been developed that reduce or remove entirely the need for tuning. In this work, we investigate this new collection of adaptive methods in the context of BBVI, with the goal of establishing the current state of the art in tuning-free optimization-based inference. In particular, we present a large-scale empirical evaluation of 56 stochastic gradient-based optimization algorithms applied to 1092 Bayesian inference optimization problems, involving over 550,000 individual optimization runs and 15 core-years of compute. The optimization algorithms we evaluate are chosen to represent a wide spectrum of recent approaches and the benchmark problems are chosen to span a range of difficulty, with posterior target dimension 1-10^4, condition number 1-10^8, and a range of variational families. Our results show that no single method dominates, but running a selection of 5 algorithms suffices to reliably get close to the best-possible observed performance. We thus provide a strong baseline for applications where expert tuning is not possible and for comparison when developing new stochastic optimization algorithms.